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carlo
04-04-2007, 08:57 PM
Anyone ever wonder who invented "hanging off" and "knee dragging" and when?

Before about 1969, nobody did it outside of a few "coffee bar cowboys" (cafe racers) in London. They were trying to compensate for the limited cornering clearance fo their road model based Triumph, BSA and Norton cafe racers.
The technique found it's way to the track in the form of racers known as the "short circuit scratchers" who raced at places like Brands Hatch, Silverstone, Snetterton. These guys learned their skills racing around the "B" (equivalent to our secondary highways like Loraine and Territorial) Roads near London.
Here's a shot of a guy named Ray Pickrell taken at Snetterton in late 1968.
I scanned these photos from old issues of Cycle World Magazine, and posted them on their forum to avoid copyright issues. I'm only linking to them here.
http://forums.cycleworld.com/attachments/cycleworld/feedback/2830/1/Ray-Pickrell.jpg

Here's a picture of a racer named Paul Smart, taken 2 years later. I think this is possibly the first picture showing a racer in a position close to the modern technique.
http://forums.cycleworld.com/attachments/cycleworld/feedback/2829/1/Paul-Smart.jpg

Many people think that Kenny Roberts introduced the technique in the US, but I saw a discussion on another forum where someone quoted Kenny as saying that he learned it from Cal Rayborn. That makes sense because Cal Rayborn had spent several years during the 60's racing on the short circuits in England, and undoubtedly saw some of these guy's riding style.

carlo
04-04-2007, 09:04 PM
For a bit of perspective, here's a shot taken in 1967 of two of the greatest racers ever, Mike Hailwood and Giacomo Agostini, both of whom retired from racing before hanging off had become a popular technique. Mike did make a return to racing briefly in the mid-70's to race for Ducati, which mainly resulted in the Ducati 750 Mike Hailwood replicas coming on the market.
Note that they're both nearly at the apex of the turn, and their butts are firmly centered on the bikes, knees just barely sticking towards the inside of the turn, and shoulders pretty well centered over the bikes.

http://forums.cycleworld.com/attachments/cycleworld/feedback/2831/1/ago-and-hailwood.jpg

Jane Honda
04-04-2007, 10:18 PM
That was very interesting!!!! Thanks for the write up! :thumbup:

importsdigest
04-04-2007, 11:21 PM
i like how one of those articles reffered to the riders style as ridiculous. and we can now see he was way ahead of his time, or rather setting a milestone for the future.

dansrc51
04-06-2007, 04:27 PM
Carlo, nice write up. I've always found in interesting reading on the history of the sport and how the modern riding postion evolved. I think King Kenny was the first to start taping his knees with duct tape to keep from wearing holes in his leathers. His contribution to the modern puck for road riders is I think what he gets the credit for..... I may be mistaken